File[The Venus Project Music Video.swf] - (6.88 MB)
[_] [L] Anon 1496591
>> [_] Cain !!GBvgNM4tK9g 1496604 bad
>> [_] Anon 1496717 .
>> [_] Anon 1496739 sage
>> [_] Anon 1496746 So is this like the hippy version of Libertarianism?
>> [_] Anon 1496770 You're my hero. go2 evolutionbase.com i just set up a forum 4 this!
>> [_] Anon 1496784 troll flash
>> [_] Anon 1496788 Reported for Zeitspam.

File : [The Venus Project Music Video.swf] - (6.88 MB)
[_] [?] Anon 1009373 Marked for deletion (old).
>> [_] Anon 1009415 I'm all for the Venus Project, but it will never happen. I wish it would though :l
>> [_] Anon 1009419 somehow the song reminded me of wall-e down to earth :D but i think if we tried hard enough we could have all cars airplanes EVERYTHING run on hydrogen
>> [_] Anon 1009423 It's a shame that nonsensical crap like the 'Zeitgeist Movement' is detracting from the credibility of meaningful things like this. I was expecting more raving when the talk about society started, but I found nothing here that was irrational or foolish. He's right, and I wish people could let go of their anxieties and investment traps and work to build a world like this.
>> [_] Anon 1009430 We can do it, but there has to be a significant change in the way we live, I.E. the abolishment of the monetary system amongst other things. We have to start at the root, the education system. All the rest will follow suit.
>> [_] Anon 1009433 laziness of society will not allow, or even being optimistic, will only allow this to happen at quite a minimal percentage of possiblity. Lots of arguments: consider that you have been working your whole life to establish your living, now this new system comes, money has no value, the people who didnt work hard are now equal to you, people wont accept this. I wonder however, after 2012, if a major crisis that happens to ruin economy or life as we know it today to a certain extent, if we may be able to start over differently, with this mentality in mind, where like the video said "not how much it will cost, but if we have the resources to do it" My thought is this wont happen, unless there is something like a meteor hitting the earth, and letting us start over, a sort of cleansing, even if it takes years and years to develop, but imagine the kind of society that can exist then..
>> [_] Anon 1009445 >># You're bringing up the point of the investment trap again. There are things to consider, though. For example, in a volatile dog-eat-dog economy, that lifetime's savings can all but vanish, dependent upon the markets; stable abundance may be worth the price of watching your do-nothing neighbour fare equally well. And then there's the question of the actual value of our labour as compared to our degree of financial success; do you really think that somebody working two jobs at minimum wage to make ends meet is accomplishing less work or work of a lower value than, say, your family doctor? Money is not a fair criteria for measuring worth. Unfortunately, your pessimism is probably about 100% accurate. Still, it's worth it to have people think about what could be, just in case.
>> [_] Anon 1009451 im 12 what is this
>> [_] Anon 1009452 >># True. People care too damn much about their money right now. They need a good meteor or two to smarten them up. I think we could start by getting people in crowds to throw shit at movie stars when they wear diamond encrusted shoes, or wear perfume that cost over $5000. If it wasn't cool to be wasteful maybe people wouldn't do it.
>> [_] Anon 1009458 >># I'm all for the Venus Project, but the resistance to a shift like this will be extreme, so we'd better figure out how to live in an economy of money for now. I used to think as you do about the waste of money by the rich, but as a starving artisan I've had some insights into that now. The money that the rich waste does not simply disappear; it is recycled into the economy, making it available to those of lesser means again. The lavish lifestyle, however obscene it may seem, prevents that money from stagnating and sends it out to those who need it. That's not to say that we should encourage indiscriminate spending - diamonds in particular are a dirty, dirty trade, and not the only such - but at this point I'm totally for celebrities purchasing one of a kind fashion items and the very highest grade of specialty foods, because it means that some artisans, farmers and chefs can pay their bills.
>> [_] Anon 1009462 The solution is to start hanging celebrities, CEOs and politicians from lamp posts.
>> [_] Anon 1009469 >># And then what? Anarchy. In the minds of the young, anarchy is all rosy-tinted Freedom with a big capital fucking "F." In reality, anarchy is a form of government in which the most ruthless and best armed enslave the rest of the population. Also, no more flush toilets.
>> [_] Anon 1009471 Kill them all. God will recognize his own.
>> [_] Anon 1009472 Sounds like COMMUNISM to me.
>> [_] Anon 1009473 >># Oh no, anything but that. Psst, buddy. The 80's are back that way.
>> [_] Anon 1009474 >># It would be a damn good start. That's what.
>> [_] Anon 1009479 >># Yeah... You know what, though? I dunno if I want my next government being formed by people who go in for public mass executions.
>> [_] Anon 1009481 >># Yeah, cause communism totally worked, right? I guess we can just bring back Nazism 'cause it ain't the 40s no more! No siree!
>> [_] Anon 1009482 >># Yeah, I guess you're totally right. Russia's been taking it straight to the bank since embracing capitalism.
>> [_] Anon 1009483 >># Why not? Worked for every country that's had a revolution yet. USA #1 baby.
>> [_] Anon 1009486 >># Okay, now I've got to comment. As an ex-Soviet citizen I'd point out things have got better and it was communism that fucked everything up so much. Life was very bad. Rebuilding from that is not easy. So FU for insulting us.
>> [_] Anon 1009488 >># Don't say "America" if you don't want to start a stupid fight. As for violent overthrow of the previous government working for every nation that's done it? Not so much. Name three, and don;t include that certain large nation whose name begins with "A" because that's a matter of opinion.
>> [_] Anon 1009490 Stupid hippie bullshit. LET'S THROW ALL THE GUNS AWAY! JOIN HANDS AND SMOKE POT! His society would be destroyed in a week by chinks or niggers with AKs.
>> [_] Anon 1009491 >># And I'm from Mars, so fuck you.
>> [_] Anon 1009492 Anon has proposed a world-devastating event, e.g. a meteor, to allow this idea to materialize. This can be arranged. All we need is a fellow anon to be a bioengineer or something and create a devastating plague to wipe out half of the population, or something like that.
>> [_] Anon 1009497 >># Oh, hush you. Go hunker behind your barricade with a shotgun for a while and you'll feel better.
>> [_] Anon 1009503 >># Making a plague is easy. Making one to wipe out people is also easy. Controlling the amount is not. It is also morally reprehensible and comes back to the wise comment about not wanting to live in a society based on or built on mass murder.
>> [_] Anon 1009504 It's a nice idea, but we ourselves are proof that this cannot happen. Can you imagine the potential to be a douche?
>> [_] Anon 1009507 >># Hey, it's a concern. There must be a means of managing it, though.
>> [_] Anon 1009508 >># It does touch on an important point. This is one of those "you first" situations. No one is going to give up on armies, nukes and so on. Also, the mega powerful and rich aren't going to want to step down and be a pleb like us. We'd need to raise every country and every person in the world up to a high standard of living to even think of starting it and you'd have to deal with religious crazies and political deals in the background trying to bring you down. This seems like a nice dream but impossible outside of fairy land. Maybe if you started off with a bunch of children or clones and educated them in a sealed environment, then dropped them on a moonbase on their own. Then maybe it would work.
>> [_] Anon 1009514 Where are we going to build this? Where, how, etc. It sounds like pie in the sky nonsense. It doesn't even sound like the idea of an outline of a plan.
>> [_] Anon 1009515 >># Disarmament definitely is a problem, yes. However, even as someone who believes in peaceful means first and foremost I do not believe in total global disarmament. Instead, I would suggest shifting the focus of every national military primarily to emergency response. This gives them something constructive to do, prepares the world for just about any natural disaster scenario, and fairly quickly changes the global view of what the armed forces are and what they do. I know some people think that the honour in military service is in the killing, but I disagree and think that this is the real way to bring honour to that uniform. As to nukes... yeah, can of worms, that. No sane ruler would take advantage of a disarmament process, but there's a bit of a dearth of sane rulers these days (or any days, for that matter.)
>> [_] Anon 1009518 >># I also see the problem of "cultural pollution". This idealistic society seems like something that would at least need semi-ideal people to even start it and near-ideal people to run it. I'm not all that bad but I can see me being a spanner in the works for this thing as I'm probably just another douchebag. God knows how we'd get around with the truly obstinate, dangerous or those with something to lose (power brokers, truly wealthy, etc.). Would it be able to get started or survive this "cultural pollution" left over from previous ages and our age?
>> [_] Anon 1009531 >># No real arguments, there. But... we live in interesting times. The technology of the information age has changed our society, and is itself in an unstable state. It has the potential to change ideas, bit by bit. Hell, 100 years ago who would have imagined that today we'd be willing to accept the umpteenth iteration of 'whiter than white' laundry soap without asking, "Just how fucking white do my clothes need to be, anyways?" Television changed our values. Controlled information changes our values. Information is becoming less controlled, now, and that means that we all have some input into that pool of values. Holf fucking fuck, I'm on 4chan, and I'm saying "values." Somebody call me a fucking ambulance right now.
>> [_] Anon 1009538 >># Lol. Better must be awfully subjective then. From everything i've heard from friends, my own experiences being there for a few months, and the statistics on GDP, crime, employment and the stability of pricing, imports, exports and the wealth gap... its fucking shit. If capitalism has done anything for you it has: put a lot of people out of work, made a small minority extremely rich (most of which leave the country) and increased organized crime. Not that I think it was any better before but for anyone in russia who thought capitalism was going to be a better life... they are fucking bitter about it now.
>> [_] Anon 1009548 >># Heh, don't worry. Sometimes a good conversation can sneak in. I don't know many places I can talk as freely as here, sadly. I like to try and learn and bounce ideas around. What I fear right now is seeing that rather than a new dawn of freedom through technology, we'll see a new dark age as the governments have better tools to control people. Not in the tin-foil hat way, but in the real and gradual way these things creep in (unless something pushes it like in Russia, Germany, Iran, etc.) It seems like there are only a few people around who see the potential for freedom and openness while there is a well-informed government with all the power and voice who can persuade people to listen.
>> [_] Anon 1009549 >># CONTINUED The open internet is something that seems to be feared by many at top of the pile. The "Great Firewall of China" looks to be just a taster of what could come. Between business lobbying for more controls and restrictions and the government sneaking in more surveillance it looks like people are gradually getting used to the idea of less freedom and privacy instead. Back-pedalling from this dream instead of heading towards it. At the same time the "dream" of wealth and the drive for consumerism is only growing and encouraging people to get tied up in the system - therefore perpetuating it through the "investment" issue as well as through people's natural reluctance to change what they have so long as they are at least fed and comfortable.
>> [_] Anon 1009563 I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. A city where the artist would not fear the censor. Where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality. Where the great would not be constrained by the small. And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
>> [_] Anon 1009566 >># This brings me waaaaaay back around to being pissed off with Zeuitgeist and its peers. By stealing the mainstream role in information activism and abusing the living crap out of it with tinfoil hat bullshit, they marginalize the entire concept of questioning society, authority and our sources of information. I've come to be very suspicious that this is intentional, and represents another front in the war on freedom of information. We NEED to be paying attention, and we need to be suspicious and vocal - but not indiscriminately so.
>> [_] Anon 1009567 All I need to know is will those damn kids stay off of my lawn?
>> [_] Anon 1009572 >># I feel exactly the same way on all accounts there.
>> [_] Anon 1009573 >># Ah, libertarianism. Warlord feudalism for those who prefer to push pencils than wield submachine guns.
>> [_] Anon 1009574 Before this thread dies: Is there somewhere reasonable to discuss these things?
>> [_] Anon 1009578 >># They stole the show with sensationalism and in the process made any "less alarming" or extreme view or more complex/difficult to explain and therefore "duller" concerns become easily overlooked or simply ignored. At the same time by having this view they are they become the face of many, even if people such as you and I do not want them to be thought of as representing our views. Anything we say ends up being dismissed or lumped in with their views, despite any differences there may be. It's undermining everything.
>> [_] Anon 1009580 >># Hmm... maybe here? http://www.nationstates.net/
>> [_] Anon 1009588 What worries me is not that there is a grand immortal puppet master or shadowy group of Illuminati with "A PLAN" spanning centuries, but by the simple act of putting in the tools for a despotic or dangerous government then we are putting ourselves at risk. The government will exercise the powers we give it (and always abuse them to an extent and push to the limits at times, as is human nature) and evolve to fit and fill the shape of the void we create for it. By putting all the laws, tools and culture needed for a dangerous government we've created it by default. It need not be some overnight grand grab for power from a classic villain with a black hat. We could end up creating our own noose, slowly, but surely and with the same result as if the hangman himself did it at dawn.
>> [_] Anon 1009590 >># Also there is the risk that if there is ever the rare swing or power grab that happens rarely, then by giving them such tools at hand we are handing them it all on a silver platter, instead of making it difficult as we should. We must not assume that everyone exercising the powers we allow are saints and right now that issue seems to be all too often ignored. But thanks to the taint of the Zeitgeist and co. questioning the world/local governments in such a manner ends up being considered "tin-foil hattery", when it should be part of normal checks and balances. We could create a monster in small increments without realising it until it is too late.
>> [_] Anon 1009603 >># lol, i know, rite?
>> [_] Anon 1009607 lol, Penis Project Take your futuristic dystopia elsewhere, and tell your robot masters to drink some seawater and short circuit.
>> [_] Anon 1009626 >># I don't understand, would not the fear of the tinfoil-hattery amplify how people view even the smallest change, rather than make people dull to the small things?
>> [_] Anon 1009638 >># what you say makes no sense, zeitgeist is all about removing the monitary system so that people can MAKE the venus project HAPPEN! >># thats pathetic, should we have to wait for a goddamn apocalypse before we fix what the fuck is wrong with us? ever watch the day the earth stood still? should we have to have goddamn aliens come down and tell us we are fucking idiots and if we dont change then the earth isnt going to be ours anymore? >># you know what your talking about >># your future if people stop fucking around
>> [_] Anon 1009642 >># It dulls the senses or makes any smaller issue seem unimportant. If I am shouting that the world will end in a fireball in a year, then you won't be interested in the man telling you that there is a small build up of toxins in the water table that may be an issue for crops in fifteen years or so. There is also the "boy who cried wolf" effect.
>> [_] Anon 1009643 >># Lastly there is the "straw man" (Google should provide if you've not heard that term) problem. By having this very public image as a representative of anyone with concerns about the government it gives anyone an easily dismissed figure or issue, which pushes everything else with it out of sight and mind (even if the others were not in agreement with the straw man). It undermines the point of anyone else expressing concern or in the near future. This can be a deliberate thing done for the advantage of one party with a stooge, or quite easily and more sensibly by picking out someone already in the public eye. When anyone has criticism, you refer to the previously dismissed straw man or the public themselves develop a scepticism as that is what they remember or are put in mind of when concern is expressed. Worried citizens all get lumped together as "tin foil hat nutjobs" because of a few.
>> [_] Anon 1009646 >># Just as people who hope for a future as expressed in this video are or would have been labelled "hippies, beatniks, stoners, commies, etc." at various times.
>> [_] Anon 1009647 >># nah you cant do that to popular people, they are more of a idiot than you are! its like kicking a retarded cute puppy! >># yea cuz chinks and niggers will keep their guns first right? like in the hood maybe, but what about all those white trash people hmm? got all them shotguns n rifles and fully automatics, STOP THE MEXICANS FROM CROSSING THE BORDER!!! fucking stupid is WHAT, and also No its not hippy bullshit its just fucking PEACE that people have been striving for for goddamn CENTURIES. also this isnt communism capitalism facism or any of that shit, its above fucking goverments cuz goverments dont do SHIT, they make shit up all OH lets do this, when scientists who know what the fuck to do say FUCKING DONT OR YOU BLOW YOURSELVES UP!!! nah hes just on a payroll and dont want you to be with the kool kids... so you do and waddia know? YOUR FUCKING DEAD CUZ YOU BLEW YOURSELF UP!
>> [_] Anon 1009662 >># see Zeitgeist >># >># >># >># You dont need all that yousee? its called technological unemployment. Machines are constantly being used to do peoples jobs and are only improving. ironically enough the only thing saving the monitary system is itself in the form of no money for research on machines to get rid of human labour. LOL >># to ask: have you watched the movies? i do not agree entirely on their 911 take, or their christianity take though i do find that the institution that religeons have developed have completely removed the origins of what religieon is for into something more like a busness. and its quite pathetic thats why i dont subscribe to a denomination. im Christian BTW and FTW
>> [_] Anon 1009663 The people have made so many changes since our time passed. We have much to do once they have been beaten again. In the old days, we could just take back the means of production. But they've got free Creation Engines on street corners now! Pumping out food and clothes for nothing! Solar energy collectors in orbit for Gods sake, beaming free energy back down! We need to bomb those fucking things out of the sky for a start.
>> [_] Anon 1009666 Obviously, we need to start from scratch. Major urban areas need to be taken back to the stone age. The infrastructure of their society needs to be wiped out. There can be no half-measures. Once that's done, we can go in, reintroduce the concept of money. Money for labor. Food for money. Without those basic relationships, there can be no control. And without control, we may as well just end all life on this planet and see if the cockroaches can get it right, a billion years from now.
>> [_] Anon 1009678 "I am Andrew Ryan, and I am here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No,' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.' 'No,' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.' 'No,' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. A city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, where the great will not be constrained by the small. And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well."
>> [_] Anon 1009686 >># already said. also yes fuck goverments, the vatican is a douche, christianity knows that tithe is optional, and comunism SAYS its for everyone, but they really mean the goverment. oh and i hate to point it out but see how rapture turned out? very very shit.
>> [_] Anon 1009702 Where do all you intelligent people hide when /b/ comes out to play?
>> [_] Anon 1009705 >># here and /gif/ obviously!
>> [_] Anon 1009706 >># >># Yup.