File : [The Venus Project Music Video.swf] - (6.88 MB)
[_] [?] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)19:41 No.

Marked for deletion (old).

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:08 No.

  I'm all for the Venus Project, but it will never happen.

  I wish it would though :l

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:20 No.

  somehow the song reminded me of wall-e down to earth :D

  but i think if we tried hard enough we could have all cars airplanes EVERYTHING run on hydrogen

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:25 No.

  It's a shame that nonsensical crap like the 'Zeitgeist Movement' is detracting from the
  credibility of meaningful things like this.

  I was expecting more raving when the talk about society started, but I found nothing here that
  was irrational or foolish. He's right, and I wish people could let go of their anxieties and
  investment traps and work to build a world like this.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:33 No.

  We can do it, but there has to be a significant change in the way we live, I.E. the abolishment
  of the monetary system amongst other things. We have to start at the root, the education system.
  All the rest will follow suit.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:40 No.

  laziness of society will not allow, or even being optimistic, will only allow this to happen at
  quite a minimal percentage of possiblity.
  Lots of arguments: consider that you have been working your whole life to establish your living,
  now this new system comes, money has no value, the people who didnt work hard are now equal to
  you, people wont accept this.
  I wonder however, after 2012, if a major crisis that happens to ruin economy or life as we know
  it today to a certain extent, if we may be able to start over differently, with this mentality in
  mind, where like the video said "not how much it will cost, but if we have the resources to do it"
  My thought is this wont happen, unless there is something like a meteor hitting the earth, and
  letting us start over, a sort of cleansing, even if it takes years and years to develop, but
  imagine the kind of society that can exist then..

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:50 No.

  >>1009433
  You're bringing up the point of the investment trap again. There are things to consider, though.
  For example, in a volatile dog-eat-dog economy, that lifetime's savings can all but vanish,
  dependent upon the markets; stable abundance may be worth the price of watching your do-nothing
  neighbour fare equally well. And then there's the question of the actual value of our labour as
  compared to our degree of financial success; do you really think that somebody working two jobs
  at minimum wage to make ends meet is accomplishing less work or work of a lower value than, say,
  your family doctor? Money is not a fair criteria for measuring worth.

  Unfortunately, your pessimism is probably about 100% accurate. Still, it's worth it to have
  people think about what could be, just in case.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:53 No.

  im 12 what is this

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)21:53 No.

  >>1009433
  True. People care too damn much about their money right now. They need a good meteor or two to
  smarten them up.

  I think we could start by getting people in crowds to throw shit at movie stars when they wear
  diamond encrusted shoes, or wear perfume that cost over $5000. If it wasn't cool to be wasteful
  maybe people wouldn't do it.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:05 No.

  >>1009452
  I'm all for the Venus Project, but the resistance to a shift like this will be extreme, so we'd
  better figure out how to live in an economy of money for now.

  I used to think as you do about the waste of money by the rich, but as a starving artisan I've
  had some insights into that now. The money that the rich waste does not simply disappear; it is
  recycled into the economy, making it available to those of lesser means again. The lavish
  lifestyle, however obscene it may seem, prevents that money from stagnating and sends it out to
  those who need it. That's not to say that we should encourage indiscriminate spending - diamonds
  in particular are a dirty, dirty trade, and not the only such - but at this point I'm totally for
  celebrities purchasing one of a kind fashion items and the very highest grade of specialty foods,
  because it means that some artisans, farmers and chefs can pay their bills.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:09 No.

  The solution is to start hanging celebrities, CEOs and politicians from lamp posts.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:15 No.

  >>1009462
  And then what? Anarchy. In the minds of the young, anarchy is all rosy-tinted Freedom with a big
  capital fucking "F." In reality, anarchy is a form of government in which the most ruthless and
  best armed enslave the rest of the population. Also, no more flush toilets.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:16 No.

  Kill them all. God will recognize his own.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:18 No.

  Sounds like COMMUNISM to me.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:19 No.

  >>1009472
  Oh no, anything but that.

  Psst, buddy. The 80's are back that way.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:19 No.

  >>1009469

  It would be a damn good start. That's what.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:23 No.

  >>1009474
  Yeah... You know what, though? I dunno if I want my next government being formed by people who go
  in for public mass executions.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:23 No.

  >>1009473

  Yeah, cause communism totally worked, right? I guess we can just bring back Nazism 'cause it
  ain't the 40s no more! No siree!

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:24 No.

  >>1009481
  Yeah, I guess you're totally right. Russia's been taking it straight to the bank since embracing
  capitalism.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:24 No.

  >>1009479

  Why not? Worked for every country that's had a revolution yet. USA #1 baby.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:27 No.

  >>1009482

  Okay, now I've got to comment.

  As an ex-Soviet citizen I'd point out things have got better and it was communism that fucked
  everything up so much. Life was very bad. Rebuilding from that is not easy. So FU for insulting
  us.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:28 No.

  >>1009483
  Don't say "America" if you don't want to start a stupid fight. As for violent overthrow of the
  previous government working for every nation that's done it? Not so much. Name three, and don;t
  include that certain large nation whose name begins with "A" because that's a matter of opinion.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:28 No.

  Stupid hippie bullshit. LET'S THROW ALL THE GUNS AWAY! JOIN HANDS AND SMOKE POT!

  His society would be destroyed in a week by chinks or niggers with AKs.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:28 No.

  >>1009486
  And I'm from Mars, so fuck you.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:29 No.

  Anonymous has proposed a world-devastating event, e.g. a meteor, to allow this idea to
  materialize. This can be arranged. All we need is a fellow anon to be a bioengineer or something
  and create a devastating plague to wipe out half of the population, or something like that.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:30 No.

  >>1009490
  Oh, hush you. Go hunker behind your barricade with a shotgun for a while and you'll feel better.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:35 No.

  >>1009492

  Making a plague is easy. Making one to wipe out people is also easy. Controlling the amount is
  not. It is also morally reprehensible and comes back to the wise comment about not wanting to
  live in a society based on or built on mass murder.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:36 No.

  It's a nice idea, but we ourselves are proof that this cannot happen. Can you imagine the
  potential to be a douche?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:39 No.

  >>1009504
  Hey, it's a concern. There must be a means of managing it, though.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:39 No.

  >>1009497

  It does touch on an important point. This is one of those "you first" situations. No one is going
  to give up on armies, nukes and so on.

  Also, the mega powerful and rich aren't going to want to step down and be a pleb like us. We'd
  need to raise every country and every person in the world up to a high standard of living to even
  think of starting it and you'd have to deal with religious crazies and political deals in the
  background trying to bring you down.

  This seems like a nice dream but impossible outside of fairy land. Maybe if you started off with
  a bunch of children or clones and educated them in a sealed environment, then dropped them on a
  moonbase on their own. Then maybe it would work.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:47 No.

  Where are we going to build this? Where, how, etc. It sounds like pie in the sky nonsense. It
  doesn't even sound like the idea of an outline of a plan.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:49 No.

  >>1009508
  Disarmament definitely is a problem, yes. However, even as someone who believes in peaceful means
  first and foremost I do not believe in total global disarmament. Instead, I would suggest
  shifting the focus of every national military primarily to emergency response. This gives them
  something constructive to do, prepares the world for just about any natural disaster scenario,
  and fairly quickly changes the global view of what the armed forces are and what they do. I know
  some people think that the honour in military service is in the killing, but I disagree and think
  that this is the real way to bring honour to that uniform.

  As to nukes... yeah, can of worms, that. No sane ruler would take advantage of a disarmament
  process, but there's a bit of a dearth of sane rulers these days (or any days, for that matter.)

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)22:54 No.

  >>1009515

  I also see the problem of "cultural pollution". This idealistic society seems like something that
  would at least need semi-ideal people to even start it and near-ideal people to run it.

  I'm not all that bad but I can see me being a spanner in the works for this thing as I'm probably
  just another douchebag.

  God knows how we'd get around with the truly obstinate, dangerous or those with something to lose
  (power brokers, truly wealthy, etc.).

  Would it be able to get started or survive this "cultural pollution" left over from previous ages
  and our age?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:03 No.

  >>1009518
  No real arguments, there. But... we live in interesting times. The technology of the information
  age has changed our society, and is itself in an unstable state. It has the potential to change
  ideas, bit by bit. Hell, 100 years ago who would have imagined that today we'd be willing to
  accept the umpteenth iteration of 'whiter than white' laundry soap without asking, "Just how
  fucking white do my clothes need to be, anyways?" Television changed our values. Controlled
  information changes our values. Information is becoming less controlled, now, and that means that
  we all have some input into that pool of values.

  Holf fucking fuck, I'm on 4chan, and I'm saying "values." Somebody call me a fucking ambulance
  right now.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:12 No.

  >>1009486
  Lol. Better must be awfully subjective then. From everything i've heard from friends, my own
  experiences being there for a few months, and the statistics on GDP, crime, employment and the
  stability of pricing, imports, exports and the wealth gap... its fucking shit. If capitalism has
  done anything for you it has: put a lot of people out of work, made a small minority extremely
  rich (most of which leave the country) and increased organized crime. Not that I think it was any
  better before but for anyone in russia who thought capitalism was going to be a better life...
  they are fucking bitter about it now.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:25 No.

  >>1009531

  Heh, don't worry. Sometimes a good conversation can sneak in. I don't know many places I can talk
  as freely as here, sadly. I like to try and learn and bounce ideas around.

  What I fear right now is seeing that rather than a new dawn of freedom through technology, we'll
  see a new dark age as the governments have better tools to control people. Not in the tin-foil
  hat way, but in the real and gradual way these things creep in (unless something pushes it like
  in Russia, Germany, Iran, etc.) It seems like there are only a few people around who see the
  potential for freedom and openness while there is a well-informed government with all the power
  and voice who can persuade people to listen.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:25 No.

  >>1009548 CONTINUED

  The open internet is something that seems to be feared by many at top of the pile. The "Great
  Firewall of China" looks to be just a taster of what could come. Between business lobbying for
  more controls and restrictions and the government sneaking in more surveillance it looks like
  people are gradually getting used to the idea of less freedom and privacy instead. Back-pedalling
  from this dream instead of heading towards it. At the same time the "dream" of wealth and the
  drive for consumerism is only growing and encouraging people to get tied up in the system -
  therefore perpetuating it through the "investment" issue as well as through people's natural
  reluctance to change what they have so long as they are at least fed and comfortable.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:44 No.

  I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his
  brow? No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican. It
  belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers.
  Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. A city where
  the artist would not fear the censor. Where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality.
  Where the great would not be constrained by the small. And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture
  can become your city as well.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:47 No.

  >>1009549
  This brings me waaaaaay back around to being pissed off with Zeuitgeist and its peers. By
  stealing the mainstream role in information activism and abusing the living crap out of it with
  tinfoil hat bullshit, they marginalize the entire concept of questioning society, authority and
  our sources of information. I've come to be very suspicious that this is intentional, and
  represents another front in the war on freedom of information. We NEED to be paying attention,
  and we need to be suspicious and vocal - but not indiscriminately so.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:47 No.

  All I need to know is will those damn kids stay off of my lawn?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:49 No.

  >>1009566

  I feel exactly the same way on all accounts there.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:50 No.

  >>1009563
  Ah, libertarianism. Warlord feudalism for those who prefer to push pencils than wield submachine
  guns.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:52 No.

  Before this thread dies: Is there somewhere reasonable to discuss these things?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:56 No.

  >>1009566

  They stole the show with sensationalism and in the process made any "less alarming" or extreme
  view or more complex/difficult to explain and therefore "duller" concerns become easily
  overlooked or simply ignored.

  At the same time by having this view they are they become the face of many, even if people such
  as you and I do not want them to be thought of as representing our views. Anything we say ends up
  being dismissed or lumped in with their views, despite any differences there may be.

  It's undermining everything.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/17/09(Wed)23:56 No.

  >>1009574
  Hmm... maybe here?

  http://www.nationstates.net/

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:08 No.

  What worries me is not that there is a grand immortal puppet master or shadowy group of
  Illuminati with "A PLAN" spanning centuries, but by the simple act of putting in the tools for a
  despotic or dangerous government then we are putting ourselves at risk. The government will
  exercise the powers we give it (and always abuse them to an extent and push to the limits at
  times, as is human nature) and evolve to fit and fill the shape of the void we create for it. By
  putting all the laws, tools and culture needed for a dangerous government we've created it by
  default. It need not be some overnight grand grab for power from a classic villain with a black
  hat. We could end up creating our own noose, slowly, but surely and with the same result as if
  the hangman himself did it at dawn.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:09 No.

  >>1009588

  Also there is the risk that if there is ever the rare swing or power grab that happens rarely,
  then by giving them such tools at hand we are handing them it all on a silver platter, instead of
  making it difficult as we should. We must not assume that everyone exercising the powers we allow
  are saints and right now that issue seems to be all too often ignored. But thanks to the taint of
  the Zeitgeist and co. questioning the world/local governments in such a manner ends up being
  considered "tin-foil hattery", when it should be part of normal checks and balances.

  We could create a monster in small increments without realising it until it is too late.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:25 No.

  >>1009573
  lol, i know, rite?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:27 No.

  lol, Penis Project

  Take your futuristic dystopia elsewhere, and tell your robot masters to drink some seawater and
  short circuit.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:46 No.

  >>1009578
  I don't understand, would not the fear of the tinfoil-hattery amplify how people view even the
  smallest change, rather than make people dull to the small things?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)00:59 No.

  >>1009423
  what you say makes no sense, zeitgeist is all about removing the monitary system so that people
  can MAKE the venus project HAPPEN!
  >>1009433
  thats pathetic, should we have to wait for a goddamn apocalypse before we fix what the fuck is
  wrong with us? ever watch the day the earth stood still? should we have to have goddamn aliens
  come down and tell us we are fucking idiots and if we dont change then the earth isnt going to be
  ours anymore?
  >>1009445
  you know what your talking about
  >>1009451
  your future if people stop fucking around

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:03 No.

  >>1009626

  No. It dulls the senses or makes any smaller issue seem unimportant.

  If I am shouting that the world will end in a fireball in a year, then you won't be interested in
  the man telling you that there is a small build up of toxins in the water table that may be an
  issue for crops in fifteen years or so.

  There is also the "boy who cried wolf" effect.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:04 No.

  >>1009642

  Lastly there is the "straw man" (Google should provide if you've not heard that term) problem. By
  having this very public image as a representative of anyone with concerns about the government it
  gives anyone an easily dismissed figure or issue, which pushes everything else with it out of
  sight and mind (even if the others were not in agreement with the straw man). It undermines the
  point of anyone else expressing concern or in the near future. This can be a deliberate thing
  done for the advantage of one party with a stooge, or quite easily and more sensibly by picking
  out someone already in the public eye.

  When anyone has criticism, you refer to the previously dismissed straw man or the public
  themselves develop a scepticism as that is what they remember or are put in mind of when concern
  is expressed. Worried citizens all get lumped together as "tin foil hat nutjobs" because of a few.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:06 No.

  >>1009643

  Just as people who hope for a future as expressed in this video are or would have been labelled
  "hippies, beatniks, stoners, commies, etc." at various times.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:06 No.

  >>1009452
  nah you cant do that to popular people, they are more of a idiot than you are! its like kicking a
  retarded cute puppy!
  >>1009490
  yea cuz chinks and niggers will keep their guns first right? like in the hood maybe, but what
  about all those white trash people hmm? got all them shotguns n rifles and fully automatics, STOP
  THE MEXICANS FROM CROSSING THE BORDER!!! fucking stupid is WHAT, and also No its not hippy
  bullshit its just fucking PEACE that people have been striving for for goddamn CENTURIES. also
  this isnt communism capitalism facism or any of that shit, its above fucking goverments cuz
  goverments dont do SHIT, they make shit up all OH lets do this, when scientists who know what the
  fuck to do say FUCKING DONT OR YOU BLOW YOURSELVES UP!!! nah hes just on a payroll and dont want
  you to be with the kool kids... so you do and waddia know? YOUR FUCKING DEAD CUZ YOU BLEW
  YOURSELF UP!

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:18 No.

  >>1009514
  see Zeitgeist
  >>1009492
  >>1009503
  >>1009508
  >>1009515
  You dont need all that yousee? its called technological unemployment. Machines are constantly
  being used to do peoples jobs and are only improving. ironically enough the only thing saving the
  monitary system is itself in the form of no money for research on machines to get rid of human
  labour. LOL
  >>1009566
  to ask: have you watched the movies? i do not agree entirely on their 911 take, or their
  christianity take though i do find that the institution that religeons have developed have
  completely removed the origins of what religieon is for into something more like a busness. and
  its quite pathetic thats why i dont subscribe to a denomination. im Christian BTW and FTW

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:25 No.

  The people have made so many changes since our time passed. We have much to do once they have
  been beaten again.

  In the old days, we could just take back the means of production. But they've got free Creation
  Engines on street corners now! Pumping out food and clothes for nothing! Solar energy collectors
  in orbit for Gods sake, beaming free energy back down! We need to bomb those fucking things out
  of the sky for a start.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:27 No.

  Obviously, we need to start from scratch. Major urban areas need to be taken back to the stone
  age. The infrastructure of their society needs to be wiped out. There can be no half-measures.
  Once that's done, we can go in, reintroduce the concept of money. Money for labor. Food for
  money. Without those basic relationships, there can be no control.

  And without control, we may as well just end all life on this planet and see if the cockroaches
  can get it right, a billion years from now.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:44 No.

  "I am Andrew Ryan, and I am here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his
  brow?

  'No,' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.'
  'No,' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.'
  'No,' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.'

  I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...

  Rapture.

  A city where the artist would not fear the censor,
  where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality,
  where the great will not be constrained by the small.

  And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well."

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)01:50 No.

  >>1009678
  already said. also yes fuck goverments, the vatican is a douche, christianity knows that tithe is
  optional, and comunism SAYS its for everyone, but they really mean the goverment. oh and i hate
  to point it out but see how rapture turned out? very very shit.

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)02:19 No.

  Where do all you intelligent people hide when /b/ comes out to play?

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)02:23 No.

  >>1009702
  here and /gif/ obviously!

>> [_] Anonymous 06/18/09(Thu)02:26 No.

  >>1009702
  >>1009705

  Yup.