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[_] Anon 3482910

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[_] Anon 1919932 Marked for deletion (old).
>> [_] Anon 1919985 Finally someone who actually get it. >inb4 muh freedums >inb4 flamewar
>> [_] Anon 1919987 Sadly, brother, you are not welcome here. We will give you food and a night's stay, but little else. In the morning, we expect you to be on your way; if you are still in this town by noon, we will be forced to take drastic measures.
>> [_] sage sage 1920110 >># I'm interested in seeing these "drastic measures", I'm guessing it won't be anything more than desperate banning to attempt to pretend like zeitgeist doesn't exist.
>> [_] Anon 1920197 I love how you say love and shelter are need and then proceed to call those who can survive out on nature without either of these two things sociopaths. Fucking fail.
>> [_] sage sage 1920202 >># 1. babies who aren't loved die 2. shelter is required against the weather, storms, solar radiation.

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[_] Anon 1913459 Marked for deletion (old).
>> [_] sage sage 1913472 Zeitgeist is just another word for communism. They are authoritarians who (in this flash) want to make it illegal for you to smoke instead of telling you cigs are bad and that you shouldn't smoke but allowing you to make up the choice for yourself. In a Zeitgeists society cigs would be banned and people who tried to import and smoke them would be sent to jail like marijuana . People need more freedom not less.
>> [_] sage sage 1913474 Also I like how they think that a computer would be able to determine the proper price of goods over a free market. NEWS FLASH free markets use computers to help set the price of goods. Its super fucking efficient too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjh7mXPf MKs
>> [_] sage sage 1913485 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ttbj6LA u0A
>> [_] Anon 1913491 >># Zeitgeist You completely missed what the cig example said. There is no choice regarding what is healthy for the human body or not, it is a scientific discovery. In a zeitgeist society cigs would not be banned, cigs would be REALISED through science if it's healthy for the public to consume such a product. Are you going to tell me that scientific thinking is communist? The laws of nature are the authority, not a person in a zeitgeist society. Also there would be no prices, there would be no trade, or market in a zeitgeist society. It would be sharing society, not a trade society. Morals and values or a code of conduct would be realised again by science, so there would be an objective method of sharing effectively. Zeigeist is not politcal as you imply, these are system approaches to organising society. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPmHaTirn Cc
>> [_] Anon 1913495 >># In a non-Zeitgeist society we have REALISED that cigs are bad for us. Ask anybody are cigs bad for you? Non-smokers and Smokers will tell you they are bad for their health. Its not that they dont know its bad for them. So i ask you how would zeitgeists deal with cigs in any way different than in the current society if not to ban them?
>> [_] Anon 1913500 >># Zeitfag here: The general public right now is an uneducated culture, it's a complicated issue as to why people smoke if people apparently know that cigs are bad for their health. Yet there is a monetary motivation in this trade society to literally profit from making people unhealthy. A more critical example is the sale of guns. Where trade advocates trade to seperate that a gun salesman isn't doing anything wrong by selling weapons to militaries. Deal with cigs? if cigs are known to be unhealthy and it is proven with science then a zeitgeist society wouldn't use such a product at all. The same as using other products which can be proven to be bad for human health yet are sold in the market. Another example, the scientology belief system is sold for a great price, yet in a zeitgeist society if it is proven by science that such a belief system is bad for the public it wouldn't be practiced.
>> [_] Anon 1913501 >># this is what a scientific or "zeitgeist" society would be like, it would respect the laws of nature so to gain the most pleasant social experience possible through using science to realise a healthy code of conduct for society to follow. It would show cooperation, not market competition is actually healthy for humanity.
>> [_] Anon 1913504 >># So what do you do wit the people that dont care and continue to smoke? What do you do with the people that dont fit in with your grand Zeitgeist Society. I'll give you a hint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killi ngs_under_Communist_regimes
>> [_] Anon 1913508 >># >if cigs are known to be unhealthy and it is proven with science then a zeitgeist society wouldn't use such a product at all. But people know cigarettes are unhealthy and it's quite proven, so what is different with your scenario that would prevent cigarettes being used? also I closed the flash at >ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A SOCIOPATH
>> [_] Anon 1913510 >># I really think they want to make cigs like illegal like marijuana. We need more freedom not less.
>> [_] Anon 1913512 >># But people know cigarettes are unhealthy and it's quite proven, so what is different with your scenario that would prevent cigarettes being used? Zeitfag here: that's a good question, I'll do my best to answer it. In our current trade free market society, it is libertrian, where you have the choice to do whatever you want regarding what you buy. In a zeitgeist society instead motivations would be shaped towards the most healthiest and prosperous circumstance. As the laws of nature are a dictatorship. To ask what would prevent cigs being used, we also have to ask what enables cigs to be used now? we have the commercial aspect for one where it's good business to sell them, there's also the social aspect where it's apparently "social" to smoke. So to answer your question, an effort would be made in a zeitgeist social system to analyse motivations.
>> [_] Anon 1913516 Guys! guys! Tell us again about how you want the world to be ruled by computers! Why wasn't that in the movie called Addendum like it was in the flashes with that name? Guys! Guys?
>> [_] Anon 1913518 >># zeitfag here: please notice how you're telling me what I'm going to do in the zeitgeist society. as in you want it to be a bad thing, you're thinking in a negative way. The zeitgeist movement is an educational movement, either the idea that the laws of nature are a dictatorship is accepted by the public and so we adapt to them or we continue with the current free market system it's that simple. I'm not going to round you up or anything lol. Education is the answer. Those who don't want to "fit in" to a society that respects the laws of nature would be irrational, religious in thinking. they need help, so they might be rounded up, but not exterminated as that method has proven not to work.
>> [_] sage sage 1913521 >># the goal of a resource based economy which is the scientific method for social concern is not to be "ruled be computers", the goal is not to be ruled by subjective political thought, but to be ruled by scientific realisations.
>> [_] Anon 1913525 >># >motivations would be shaped That's coercion. It is evil and wrong. Coercion locking someone in a box for 10 years because they choose to spend their money on marijuana(or cigs) and then at the end of it telling them you did so for their own good. I would like to point you to my first post where I said that zeitgeists wanted to make tobacco illegal. >># You have the belief that society owns each human being. That is wrong. Each and every human being owns themselves and so long as they dont bother other people should be allowed to conduct destructive practices onto themselves.
>> [_] Anon 1913529 >># that is so close minded. As soon as I say "education" and "motivations would be shaped", you think that the only way human behaviour can be influenced for the public good would be to use coercion. TL:DR ver: You're putting words in my mouth. You're talking as if I do not know that coercion and violence isn't productive or helpful. There are extremely rare cases of "prisons" actually being what they're meant to be: a correctional institution. I'm not talking about a rank hole you stick someone in, more like a well made social experience to alter someone's behaviour positively. each human being is owned by the laws of nature, I'm not for libertarianism. Humans should act in such a way to benefit themselves and others.
>> [_] Anon 1913531 >># > so they might be rounded up, but not exterminated as that method has proven not to work. lol omg why did i have to argue with you for so long to get to the point where you would admit you wanted to round people up and kill them? >screencapped Anyways free markets already use computers you want find any improvements by impingement them. You should know that Zeitgeists are analogous to communists. You should know that rounding people up and putting them into camps even if you dont kill them for smoking is wrong. I believe very few Zeitgeists know 2 shits about the economy and only appeared because of the 2007 crash.
>> [_] Anon 1913534 >># Smokers already know tobacco causes cancer. There is no more education that can be done. They choose to smoke knowing they will eventually get cancer.
>> [_] Anon 1913535 >># classic zeitgeist critic nonsense. I say the opposite of what you think I think, yet you still want to believe that I do not think that way. If people are damaging society, they of course they might need to rounded up and EDUCATED to alter their behaviour so their behaviour would be positive towards society. How does the current prison system alter behaviour positively? for the most part it doesn't it doesn't know how human behaviour works. Mostly the current prison system doesn't attempt to educate people to enrich them at all, it treats people like rubbish. Explain yourself, how is rounding people up to alter people's cancerous behaviour into a positive framework "wrong" as you put it?
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913542 >># >an educational movement Bullshit. I'm sure churches would love to 'educate' me too. They can get fucked and so can you. For the record, smoker, drinker and gambler here. I know that I'll end up dying of lung cancer/liver failure/heart attack at a poker table. Do I care? Neither do most people. We do it because we enjoy it, can afford it, it doesn't hurt anyone else, and fuck you nanny state. I obey the speed limit because someone has worked out a safe speed to travel on x road, ignoring it might kill me (don't care) and someone else (do care). Tl;DR your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.
>> [_] Anon 1913544 >># Zeitfag here: What people like you completely fail to take into account is social inter-connectivity. You want to desperately believe that hurting yourself and being rude and insulting doesn't hurt other people. Science has news for you.
>> [_] Anon 1913545 >># A person has the right to smoke if they so choose to. If they want to kill themselves slowly with ciggarettes or alcohol or drugs or ANYTHING else you can think of, they should be permitted to do so. I could understand your claims of "education" if you were stating that children should be brought up to deal with these things, but you are trying to take away the fundamental rights of individuals in an attempt to make your "society" better. It doesn't work like that. If you deprive someone of something and give them little reason for it, they will resent you and your entire corrupt regime. You're neo-communist without anything that might actually work towards improving society. You're a cult. Go away.
>> [_] Anon 1913547 >># Because Cigarettes are what's killing society Sure
>> [_] Anon 1913548 >># You know nothing of anything don't sully the name of science. This whole thread has shown your failings because you keep talking
>> [_] Anon 1913549 So Zeitfag Do you fap? Pretty important question here
>> [_] Anon 1913551 >># zeitfag here: I'm not for libertarianism. so just because a person gets older they shouldn't be educated? The laws of nature do not respect made up "human rights", there is only what is healthy and what isn't. plain and simple. the goal of the zeitgeist movement is to deprive people of unhealthy behaviours, products, and methods which infest the current zeitgeist. Politics, religion, and markets are the biggest criminals of our age yet are praised blindly. >># what's killing society is trade. Trade/barter is violence yet are respectfully called "good business". >># where's your scientific evidence which proves that there is no such thing as social inter-connectivity.
>> [_] Anon 1913552 >># Yes I fap, I created the meet and fuck driving down the road version. I fap to that.
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913553 >># I punch someone in the face, blow smoke in their face, force alcohol down their throat, that's hurting them. >># There was something like that before wasn't there? They were camps, where people were made to concentrate... yeah that worked out fucking brilliantly didn't it. >># >each human being is owned by the laws of nature Get fucked we are. We're at the top of the food chain. We can and do dominate whatever the fuck we want to (although that's not saying we should, look at how the rainforests worked out). What you're saying is that we should regress? Like monkeys? Nature can go fuck itself too, I'm quite happy where I am thank you very much.
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913554 zeitfag, just for you I'm going to chug a bourbon and coke and smoke a cig. OMG LOOK AT HOW MUCH I'M HURTING SOCIETY.
>> [_] Anon 1913555 >># violent talk is destructive in and of itself. new born babies for example hate violent talk. you're very arrogant as you don't want to recognise that we are owned by the laws of nature as they are understood by science. you're at the top of the food chain are you? try walking on the walls, I'm really sure you can call the laws of nature your "bitch".
>> [_] Anon 1913557 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lhkNUt kBA The Message of Freedom in One Minute
>> [_] Anon 1913558 >># What Science and research do you dare to quote, you claim that Trade hurts but all sciences, mathematics, and economics proves otherwise. Who has done your research to be sure that your reverse functioning digestive system crap that you spew will work? Prisons were designed as a place of rehabilitation when they failed to do as we expected we just started using them as places to stick people we didn't want to deal with (sound familiar?)
>> [_] Anon 1913559 >># No shit. So what you're saying is that we should go back to living in grass fucking huts and pillaging everything. Plenty of human things don't follow the Laws of Nature. Morality being the biggest proponent there. The reason we are human is because we told the laws of nature to go fuck themselves. When Nature told us to stay inside at night, we made fire. When Nature told us not to hunt things we couldn't kill with our hands, we made spears and bows. When Nature told us that we should die to diseases, we made vaccines. Fuck you. You don't know WHAT you want. You proclaim this insane rhetoric of "The Laws of Nature" and yet proclaim science to be your lynchpin, at the same time decrying Politics, Religion, and the free market for being anti-society when in fact they are the only reason Science has been able to reach this point in history.
>> [_] Anon 1913560 >># if you watch the scientology introduction video it actually claims the same thing: human beings have rights blah blah blah. News flash: humanity has no rights, human beings are OWNED by the laws of nature. "the awesome machinery of nature" -carl sagan.
>> [_] Anon 1913561 >># Give us fifty years, we'll make anti-grav boots. We call the laws of nature our bitch NOW thanks to Science. Now you're trying to take Science away from us and put it back in that cunt's hands? Fuck off.
>> [_] Anon 1913563 >># >Human beings are OWNED by the laws of nature You keep saying that and it's so ridiculously untrue that it's like you're purposely trying to make your movement look retarded.
>> [_] Anon 1913564 >># zeitfag here: that's comical, I'm not saying humanity should go back into living in grass fucking huts. I'm saying it should recognise the technological progress happens through cooperation not market competition. Are you going to tell me that for profit software is more powerful than open source? you can't tell the laws of nature to go fuck themselves. that's like saying you can stop eating and live, or walk on the walls. totally insane. we did not make fire, WE DISCOVERD FIRE, which is different. I think you are misunderstanding me when I use the term "the laws of nature". The reason science progresses is because of cooperation, Science does not progress through destructive purposes like creating war machines and devices, that's a society that's flushing it's progress down the toilet.
>> [_] Anon 1913566 >># That is the message of liberty. Its is a libertarian message. Throwing people in camps becuase they refuse to stop smoking is the Zeitgeist message. The two messages are opposite.
>> [_] Anon 1913569 >># the message of liberty is always the freedom to be destructive, which is what zeitgeist is against. You want to simply zeitgeist's argument because it disrupts your worldview. I'm proud to be against liberty.
>> [_] Anon 1913570 >># Except that's wrong. Some of the greatest scientific discoveries have been born from the fruits of war. Many of our life saving medical processes have been created to deal with injuries caused by war. Nuclear energy provides a clean and nearly risk-free source of abundant energy because we decided to blow up two cities. We have methods of creating fire. Because of that, we made it. No other species uses fire. Sure, we didn't "create" it, but we create the tools that allow us to utilize and spark it. Stop eating? Maybe that's mad. But your "Walk on walls" argument is stupid because you've obviously never bothered to look into the kind of technology that might allow us to do so. And yes, for profit software is more powerful then open source. Only a fucking retard would think otherwise. EA sells more copies of ONE game then Hydorah will ever get downloads of, as much of a shame that is.
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913571 >># >violent talk is destructive Do you not grasp the concept of an illustration? Also, I chugged my bourbon and coke and had my smoke. Both were quite enjoyable. I'm quite confident I didn't make anyone else take up smoking or drinking though. If society wants to change, it will. If you want to change all of society, it won't happen. Forced meme creator would be proud of your efforts though. Why can't you just start a cult camp and cut off communication with the outside world. You'll be nice and safe from all those destructive influences out there. You can live with your commie robots and believe whatever the fuck you want, and most importantly you can stop shitting up /f/. Out of interest, are you the same guy who was posting the chunks of the zeitgeist movie?
>> [_] Anon 1913572 >># You speak that progress is made through cooperation though you use a resource right at this very moment designed for military implications brought on by military competition and released to the public after the fact that it has commercial use. If your mind is drawing a blank here is a tip. It starts with an "I" and and ends in "net"
>> [_] Anon 1913573 >># zeitfag here: Nuclear energy: one word: chernobyl the "fruits" of war? so shell shock doesn't damage people anymore... again, it's not creating fire, It's DISCOVERING fire. you're obviously trying to ignore my metaphor. Everyday people cannot simply walk on the walls as the law of gravity will not allow it. having anti-gravity boots does not change the laws of nature. here we have the ignorance coming into view: "for profit software is more powerful then open source." Wow, that's such a crazy statement and it's religiously defended with an ad hominem too.
>> [_] Anon 1913574 >># zeitfag here: the internet is actually very anti-commercial with the religion of intellectual property failing to keep a lid on the ABUNDANT amount of media that pours through it. the market is based on scarcity, so the internet is anti-market by it's nature.
>> [_] Anon 1913575 Spamming of Zeitgeits flashes is political propaganda and should be b&. If the spammer/s would keep it to posting them once in a while people wouldn't hate their shit so much and they would get their message across way better, but like this they look even worse than any other political party.
>> [_] Anon 1913576 >># Then go ahead and throw people in jail for using tobacco.
>> [_] Anon 1913577 >># The laws of nature are not some big blanket object it is the law that governs survival you cockbite. The strongest survive (Intelligence is a strength) Our ability and our very survival has been based on that Competition with other creatures and other humans in a lot of cases has lead us to our advancements that is nature that is the law that governs us all cooperation was always between those of similar likeness for the goal of out doing others
>> [_] Anon 1913578 >># Who said anything about changing them? We don't need to change them to render them obsolete. I never said that War didn't hurt people. It's pretty fucked up, in fact. Shell Shock, PTSD, death tolls, all proof of war's bad side. But you're so locked into seeing only the negative that you're completely ignoring that mankind's greatest inventions were created at first to fuck over man. You ignored my point on fire, faggot. Nuclear energy: Three words: Three Mile Island. A similar accident happened there and was contained with no civilian casualties. The power plant is STILL IN OPERATION TODAY. Congratulations, Chernobyl had fucking morons with no idea what the words "safety regulations" meant.
>> [_] Anon 1913579 >># posting the chunks of the zeitgeist movie? Yes. zeitgeist isn't about cutting itself off from society as it is not a cult, it's here to stay right here in the public. Would you rather it become a cult because you don't like what zeitgeist has to say? I don't think you grasp the concept of objective understandings, you want everything to be subjective instead which is religious. the religion which is known as the status quo.
>> [_] Anon 1913580 >># And yet you pay for internet unless your 12 and and your parents pay for it for you. And if you think your not paying for it think again if your in college and in a dorm and the wireless is free to you its part of the bill you pay to stay there
>> [_] Anon 1913581 I thought these were banned. Good job, mods?
>> [_] Anon 1913582 While I like Zeitgeist's methods of running a society and economy based on lack of scarcity through proper allocation of resources, I find the philosophy that they it bases it's governmental/societal structure on to be extremely hypocritical. In this thread you've claimed that people who use tobacco cigarettes would be held against their will and educated. You've defended the ethics of this proposed action by claiming that the living conditions will be acceptable and that focus will be placed on education and reformation in a humane manner. The problem is not the techniques employed in mass imprisonment, it's the fact that you would take away something you have no claim to because someone is committing an action that does not effect you. 1/7
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913584 >># >Chernobyl Yeah, one reactor poorly designed from the outset and was run like shit = every reactor ever. >having anti-gravity boots does not change the laws of nature But it does. You're saying "X cannot happen" (walking on walls). But these hypothetical boots would allow X to happen, thereby invalidating the claim "X cannot happen". Ergo, that law of nature would be broken. Just like the many others have done and will continue to. We are bound by the laws of physics and space-time (aka SCIENCE, BITCH). I can't go faster than the speed of light. I could live the rest of my life without eating, though. Just do the same as they to to coma patients, hook me into an IV. That's science.
>> [_] Anon 1913585 >># While humans are the most effective in societies, we are each individuals with our own wants, needs and desires. We've become attached to societies because we can enact some form of law or agreed upon code much more effectively as a group than as individuals, resulting in proper debate and reasoning instead of a "might makes right" method of acquiring of resources. Put simply, societies exist to benefit the individual, not the other way around. While there is a point to be made in stating that someone causing harm to themself might also cause harm to another, there is no effective way to prevent them from engaging in this behavior without committing an even greater infringement of rights. 2/7
>> [_] Anon 1913586 >># For example: John smokes a pack a day. He lives alone or with consenting adults and doesn't smoke in enclosed public spaces, so no harm is being done to anyone besides John and others who are aware of the risks of living with John and deem them acceptable. His friends and family hate to see him smoke and pressure him to stop, but John decides to smoke anyhow for reasons known only to him. John is causing stress to his friends and family with his habit, and he is indeed performing a small amount of harm to them. Maybe through peer pressure they will get him to stop, maybe not. 4/7
>> [_] Anon 1913587 >># Your proposed solution to this is to (however comfortably) incarcerate John, performing a major act of harm unto him (depriving him of his basic right of self determination). He is no longer in control of his life, but you excuse this by claiming that it's in his best interest. The problem is that this is completely hypocritical due to the fact that while John may indeed become more healthy because of his state's actions, his quality of life is less. He cannot partake in an action he enjoys, and that does far more harm to him than him smoking. 5/7
>> [_] Anon 1913588 >># zeitgeist advocates the scientific method for social concern, how is that political? the cons of war far outweigh the pros. Nuclear energy is far more dirty and risky than solar, tidal, wave and geothermal. competition with other creates? what with the trees and the plankton that provide oxygen?
>> [_] Anon 1913590 >># You also ignored my example of how open source is less powerful then for profit software, but here, let me put it for you this way: If your dumb little Zeitgeist movement had a shitload of hired people in the media, it might get more exposure. If it had the money for ads it could run them on television and blanket the airwaves with their retarded message. People would see it often and go "well if they keep getting it on the air it's got to be SOMETHING right" and go with it. You would then shower them in your psuedo intellectual bullshit about the laws of nature and society to make them feel enlightened and intelligent. Meanwhile your ads would still be running. Instead you're a bunch of fucking faggots screaming online, and therefore no one gives a shit. Enjoy obscurity.
>> [_] Anon 1913591 >># While the harm that the stress was doing to his friends and family is removed completely, his associates were voluntarily choosing to interact with him in the first place. If they decided that Knowing John was worth the risk of Known John Smokes, they accepted the fact that it would cause some stress in their lives. Family can disown him, friends can remove themselves from his company; continuing to engage with him was consenting to whatever stress may have been caused by the fact that John smoked in the first place. They found the trade of his company to be worth the cost of not approving of his actions. While science is a fantastic tool for determining models and predicting results, it is a terrible tool for making value judgements or relating to the human condition. Science gives us the facts, it's up to us to decide what to do with them. 6/8 (Man this is a long one.)
>> [_] Anon 1913592 >># And that's not even getting into the possibility for extreme corruption. Having worked in academia, I can tell you that modern science is not as simple as running a few experiments and determining a result. Petty politics surround everything we do, including what results are considered valuable and who is considered a credible source. Making policy based on modern results found by humans would be absolutely nightmarish considering that many scientific minds become attached on an idea because they thought of it or because it seems more elegant. In short, this government would be ineffective, easily corruptible and (most importantly) unsustainable without extreme measures that come straight from dystopia novels and are not remotely ethical. It fails on every point. 7/8
>> [_] Anon 1913594 >># While the current systems of government are doing poorly, this would be a step in the wrong direction. It's actually fairly saddening, because so many other things that Zeitgeist proposes would be remarkably beneficial. Their form of government is not one of these things. 8/8 tl;dr: ur gay and ur shits all retarded
>> [_] Anon 1913597 >># You apparently don't know how to read because it says creatures (AKA the food chain) and has nothing to do with our ability to breath oxygen. If you argument is why there are trees and plants it is because they through evolution (advancements) have adopted a reproductive strategy that allows them to continue to prosper under normal conditions in nature
>> [_] Anon 1913598 >># it changes how we understand the laws of nautre, but the laws of nature still don't change no matter what humanity does. you're confusing needs and wants, typical of a market advocate. There are only human needs, human wants are irrational. I'm not for democracy. the laws of nature cannot be debated, there can only be understood by research. (aka SCIENCE, BITCH). the way to prevent a human from engaging in damaging behaviour is through education, "human rights" is a part of scientology's religion as they want the freedom to be destructive. it should be in someone's best interest to love themselves and other people. that is what I believe as a zeitfag.
>> [_] Anon 1913602 >># I will say this for you ONE more time. The law of nature is "The strong will survive" that is all that there is to nature the other crap that you claim the law"s" of nature are is nonsensical garbage what your should be referring to is evolution which is our ability to adapt to new situations through intelligence or structural changes to our being over the course of history
>> [_] Anon 1913603 >># Food should be bland and tasteless, a nutrient-rich paste. The only liquid should be water. Distilled and free of anything that could give it flavor. Houses should only have walls, floors, a roof, and climate conditioning. Perhaps a bed, but it is not permitted to be comfortable. Yes, human wants are irrational but it's what prevents us from being fucking emotionless robots. Your concept of Zeitgeist completely abolishes any proliferation of culture.
>> [_] Anon 1913605 >># The laws of nature are actually unbiased, the idea of "The strong will survive" is a biased, cultural view which you are putting on nature because that's what you want to observe. the cooperative elements of nature you will want to ignore.
>> [_] Anon 1913607 >># And through the courses of life and extinction through the true law of nature that the strong will survive are a myth to you then
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913608 >># Put a lion and a gazelle in a cage, I'm sure they'll cooperate real well.
>> [_] Anon 1913609 >># zietfag here: you have a very un-colourful view of human needs if that's what you think that's what science has proven what a person needs to be healthy happy and then desire to interact with society productivly.
>> [_] Anon 1913610 >># you want strength to be violence and competiton which is advocating tyranny which you ironically say you're against.
>> [_] Anon 1913611 >># You just said that human wants are irrational. Alright, then. I removed any human wants from the equation. Now your saying that culture can be included in human needs rather then human wants? The only reason that Science has been able to THRIVE is because we have fulfilled our basic needs and therefore wish to fulfill our wants. It's the reason civilization exists. If we just wanted to fulfill our needs then we would have stopped progressing a loooong time ago.
>> [_] Anon 1913612 >># You've gone and ignored all the important parts of my previous posts that involved the use of cooperation. The ability to cooperate is a strength. Example Bees in general and their relationship with flowers has lead them to have the continued strength to survive. If you don't get that one I should let you know that if you don't understand how cooperative a hive a bees are and their relationship with flowers then you should go back to preschool
>> [_] Anon 1913613 If a zeitgeist society would become a reality It must be done slowly. You can't force social evolution as much as you can't force biological evolution. Things progress over time. On the cigarette example: I'd HOPE that people would have a freedom of choice and thought in a Zeitgeist society, but the cigarette industry wouldn't be there anymore. So in order for you to smoke you would have to make your own cigarettes or marijuana.
>> [_] Anon 1913616 There are laws of the physics. These cannot be contested. Gravity will pull you down is a good one. No matter what you do, the force of gravity will always pull you towards it's source. Always. There is no known or theoretical way around this. However, by manipulating air pressure, we've been able to overpower gravity through powered flight. While gravity continues to pull us down, we can resist it for long enough to be effective. There is no such thing as a law of nature, as nature is inherently lawless. There are laws of physics, which is what you seem to be referring to. There are also natural tenancies, which are not universal (Gravity makes you stick to the floor, people cannot walk on walls, fish cannot breathe air and so on) and that we can change through ingenuity. Please stop confusing the two.
>> [_] Anon 1913617 >># And I will add to that that their cooperation is willingly done not forced upon by the flowers or the bees
>> [_] Anon 1913619 >># Because Bees are not sentient creatures. They do not possess free will or intelligent thought. You are trying to turn people in mindless bees.
>> [_] Anon 1913622 >># people starve to death daily outside of your country, that's not fulfilling needs. >># Yes bees are a good example of cooperation in nature. Yet humanity should respect all these natural systems that maintain life. typically when people say "survival of the fittest" they mean through violence and competition, not bees in cooperation. that's an implication I went with incorrectly. >># laws of nature: Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community. if nature was "lawless" then life wouldn't exist as the same requirements or the same framework is used in life design for an organism to work.
>> [_] Anon 1913623 >># I'm not the zeitgeist fag I'm the guy trying to prove that he's wrong and that the the only law to nature is "The strong will survive" Strength being, (Our intelligence, Our physical capabilities and only willing cooperation not forced upon by others)
>> [_] Anon 1913624 >># zeitfag here: when you say free will, you are alluding to the freedom to be destructive. Like cancer.
>> [_] Anon 1913626 >># People starve to death INSIDE my country, too. What you're proposing seems to be a one-world government where everything would be happy and cheery and no one would ever fight each other and send their own hard-earned goods off to people they will never see and never interact with. You're illogical.
>> [_] Anon 1913627 >># anti-grav shoes. So the shoes will disprove the force of gravity? In a larger scale, if you can go against the grain you disprove the fundamental?
>> [_] Anon 1913628 There seems to be a divide in understanding, here. Allow me to attempt clarification. Please know that these are not my own views, only an interpretation of what I understand to be going on here. Zeitfag says: We can improve society by forcefully educating it's members scientific fact. By causing them to understand these facts, they will see the err of their ways and understand that our philosophy is what's best for them. Anti-Zeitfags say: We understand what we want, what will make us fulfilled and what's best for us. While we accept that other people may wish to live their lives in other ways, we insist that no other or others infringe upon how we choose to live (provided that it causes minimal harm to anyone else). Any attempt to enforce how you would want to live upon us is not doing us a service, and we would act in self defense if you attempted to coerce us into a lifestyle we did not agree to. Am I wrong? Please clarify if I am.
>> [_] Anon 1913630 >># Zeitfag here: in a cooperative society based on science, and automation of labour, or effectively shared labour how can something be so "hard-earned"?
>> [_] Anon 1913632 >># You continue to say the freedom to be destructive. Most people would call it the freedom to enjoy their lives. What is destructive to you could be the only reason some people are still alive. It is the freedom to choose if you wish to smoke a pack a day or go on a jog. It's what gives me the ability to call you a goddamned retard. The fact that you want to take that away is why we're disagreeing with you. You're trying to take away freedom in general, not just the freedom to be destructive.
>> [_] Anon 1913633 >># zeitfag: forcefully? the zeitgeist movement is an educational movement not a cult. we're not going to force you to obey science and the laws of nature. Yet we must obey what science tells us about reality if humanity wishes to survive. I'm sick of the church getting run-time on tv, for fucks sake.
>> [_] Anon 1913634 >># Yes wars have pushed us, but how. The war itself is not a productive system. The people who work "against" the war make the innovations and progress. ie medicine ect. War makes us better only by giving the people the realisation, that war is insanity. Then comes a new generation that hasn't lived the war and make the same mistakes. People are shit like that...
>> [_] Anon 1913635 >># Ok, wait, wait, wait. You want us to stop all labor? Do you really think we're going to fucking progress at ALL if we don't have problems to deal with?
>> [_] Anon 1913638 >># Pretty much. With the Zeitfags of course saying that nothing would be forced despite saying that any negative behavior would be re-educated in a facility elsewhere.
>> [_] Anon 1913639 >># that's because freedom is a delusion in a scientific reality.
>> [_] Anon 1913640 >># Ok, dude. If you want to use your freedom of speech to say that no one should have freedoms, you go nuts. I'm out.
>> [_] Anon 1913641 >># The right to be destructive to ones self is and should be freely given and should not be forced by your "Concentration camps" to change the destruction to others however is different as is why there are laws against murder, arson, and assault you've been here for hours and refuse to learn how humans work. Here's another example of competition for you that can never be undone no matter how much education you give because it is human nature. Jealousy, it can also be seen as the inherit need to compete in nature. Ever wanted that cute girl that just wasn't into you but showed interest in other guys? But thought maybe you could impress her somehow? ( It is internal need to want the best for your procreation) failure in your endeavors leads to anger, hatred, and more jealousy
>> [_] Anon 1913643 >># you can rest easy, we don't live in the social system zeitgeist advocates. However we will need to one day if we live in a reality that is best understood by science.
>> [_] Anon 1913645 >># Okay, so what say something like this situation occurs. People either refuse to listen to your points or have arrived at a philosophical impasse with you over core values. What then? Do you detain them until they have been educated? Do you use force to detain them if they forcefully resist? Not everyone is going to agree with your point. Some people place liberty above life in importance, and vice versa. How do you get people who do not agree with you on these basic points to accept the rule of your society? Traditionally it has been with violence, which is where my false assumption came from. What alternative do you propose?
>> [_] Anon 1913646 >># zeitfag: Jealousy is created by property, not by a "human nature". girls are property in this social system.
>> [_] Anon 1913647 You are all wrong! Me too! Prove me wrong! It's funny how this discussion brings about so much rage. I'm just trying to get the point of all sides, but everyone seems to be failing. :)
>> [_] Anon 1913648 >># Property is caused by the basic need to impress others for procreative neeeds by showing that you have the means to provide well and better than others
>> [_] Anon 1913649 >># Actually, it's a pretty natural response for humans. Psychiatry and Sociology back me up on this one. Science, in short, backs me up on this one.
>> [_] Anon 1913650 >># I can't argue for cancerous thinking. I could say the same question yet slightly differently: "Some people place GOD above life in importance." such a crazy statement can't be responded to seriously how can it?
>> [_] Anon 1913651 >># Its also natural response among animals
>> [_] Anon 1913652 >># Science doesn't promote survival, science promotes understandings. It might be biased, but I think the zeitgeist society I advocate should focus it's science on survival, not pointless property, pointless war, pointless political debate.
>> [_] Anon 1913653 >># You're absolutely right, some people place their god above everything else. I personally don't agree with them, but I respect their decision to spend their spare time in prayer because it has no negative impact on me. Now, if someone were about to bomb my home because of their religion, I wouldn't pause for a moment in stopping them with violence if it we necessary. That is how my philosophy deals with people who do not agree with me. Let them do as they will, unless unreasonable harm will come to someone who does not consent because of it. But you never answered my question. People do not agree with you. People refuse to accept your way of thinking, in spite of your best efforts. This isn't theoretical, this is a fact that this thread has demonstrated. Your society will not function with these people refusing to cooperate. How would your movement deal with them?
>> [_] Anon 1913655 >># Science has always focused on increasing the ease of survival, others may want to kill you because you just happen to be standing somewhere when they found that spot and want it. War isn't pointless to those on the defensive should they just give in and die because they don't want to live up to the competition?
>> [_] Anon 1913656 By obsessing over Zeigeist, its followers have done us all the favor of leaving the public discussion to everyone who is actually "serious."
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913657 Guys, guys. He's already admitted he was the same asshole spamming /f/ with the zeitgeist movie (>>#)(permabanned for it). Just email moot. >># He's also chosen to ignore quite a few other things in this thread too.
>> [_] Anon 1913658 >># I can't respect your passive attitude to enable religion as religion is violence, a covert war on society. also as heated as it is, violence only produces more violence, it's not problem solving. Look up Peter Popoff's miracle spring water, I hate religion. My movement isn't going to "deal" with you. If we gain a cooperative society with enough people joining the zeitgeist movement to put pressure on the religious organisations that promote damaging practices such as market competition and politics then we do. if not enough people join zeitgeist, then we suffer as humanity will have failed to align to the laws of nature properly. right now the waste machine known as the market is destroying our planet through stubborn outdated methods and thought processes. I'm not going to do anything to you. this is a flash movie, not the FBI party van.
>> [_] Anon 1913659 >># >failed to align with the laws of nature properly. The fact that we are alive means that we are perfectly aligned with the laws of nature as it is with its governing principles
>> [_] Anon 1913660 >># zeitfag here: I'm behind proxies. and jesus christ, everyone in this thread except me is anti-zeitgeist. can you really expect me to keep up?
>> [_] Anon 1913662 >># I doubt you're taking the full picture into account. Say polluting the air, using outdated technology to produce food, insulting technology by making things to break for monetary profit, are examples of refusing to align to nature properly.
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913663 >># You keep implying that anyone anti-zeitgeist is pro-religion. You're wrong, it's a law of nature. Disprove me. >># >everyone in this thread except me is anti-zeitgeist Doesn't take a genius to work out that maybe you're not welcome here. Again, forced meme creator would be proud. >behind proxies Ban evading, too. Nice. Or are you just of the opinion that the 'laws of nature' allow you to do whatever the fuck you want.
>> [_] Anon 1913664 >># People are only responding as you do if you took time to slow down read all the info link to the post related to them properly before spam posting over and over and over again causing others to retort in large numbers till your overwhelmed. And since you realize your the only one here for you maybe you should get the fuck out of here. Also your proxy doesn't make you safe from bans
>> [_] Anon 1913665 >># I've yet to come across someone who's pro-zeitgeist and pro-religion, therefore I doubt they exist. I'm glad "forced meme creator" would be proud. also you don't take the possibility of your own ignorance. If you actually observed the thread on /q/ about zeitgeist, no evidence was provided that zeitgeist is spam. NONE.
>> [_] Anon 1913667 >># Technology only advances so fast we produce new technology every day and are slowly being implemented without your zeitgeist movement through the means of market competition. The pollution of the next generation of technology is always reducing and will replace old technology at its earliest convenience. Sooner or later it will cause a reversal of pollutants given enough time. Everything wears down eventually and breaks its how new technology finds its chance to take its place and the profit motive to supply the newer cleaner and possibly longer lasting tech keeps the whole thing going. We are aligned with nature fine
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913668 >># Bullshit. It's no different to boner pills. Unwanted, unwelcome, and it sure as fuck won't go away. And you're happy to be like forced meme creator? Shoveling shit? Do you even 4chan? >someone who's pro-zeitgeist and pro-religion Now this I can agree on. It would be a fair assumption that anyone pro-zeitgeist is anti-religion. But just because I'm anti-zeitgeist, doesn't mean I'm pro-religion. Quite the opposite. TL;DR you're wrong faggot. It's a law of nature.
>> [_] Anon 1913669 holy autism batman! this thread has been overrun!
>> [_] Anon 1913670 >114 replies,and no porn nor hentai i havnt visited /f/ lately
>> [_] Anon 1913671 >># copyright holds technology and social progress back. pollution is good for business, get sick from fumes? go pay for a doctor's visit. the profit motive supplys human wants which are insane, it does not provide needs. Unless that fat rich guy needs a gold plated toilet seat. we aren't aligned with nature.
>> [_] Anon 1913673 >># I've come to draw fun from poking holes in this zeitfag so the burst in this thread might mean i'm partly to blame for the bloat
>> [_] Anon 1913674 >># you can scream zeitgeist is spam all day, the fact is no hardcore argument was ever made in /q/ about banning me from /f/ I was religious banned for submitting zeitgeist content.
>> [_] Anon 1913676 >># Copyright hold reward to those responsible for the creation/advancement allowing them to reap what they sow. They will feel the need to reap what they sow because it is natural to do so. because it goes back the way we go about our procreation I meantioned back here (>># ) and here (>># ) Without reward nothing neither human or animal would do anything
>> [_] Anon 1913677 >># I remember the exact quote MOOT didn't ask how zeitgeist is spam, he just said "email me when he does it next" which is close minded as it can get.
>> [_] Anon 1913678 Serious Marxist communist here, 20 years in the movement, 35 years old. Zeitgeist sound crazy to us too guys. We had the robot debate around 1950 or so. (Pro-tip: the robots do nothing).
>> [_] Anon 1913680 >># people find creating rewarding, not creation for reward. that's basic human behaviour that you don't understand.
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913683 >># Go read the rules fuckhead. You've violated; Global rules 2 (probably), 6, 9, 10, 11, 14, and I want to say 17 too but that's not really a rule. Also /f/ rules 1 and 3. Yeah, not spam at all.
>> [_] Anon 1913684 >># No, You don't understand. Human behavior has and always will be as with any animal be for the betterment of itself and its ability to procreate, life is selfish. Unless we evolve into another form with no death or need to procreate we will and always will be selfish at our core functions
>> [_] Anon 1913685 >># zeitfag: calling something spam doesn't make it spam. No evidence has been provided as to how zeitgeist is spam. Moot wanted zeitgeist to be spam because people were complaining about zeitgeist so he just banned me. no evidence was provided in the thread on /q/ and mood didn't ask for any. You don't think that's religious and not an injustice?
>> [_] Anon 1913686 tl;dr : This thread is dog dicks. FREEEDOOMMMMM!
>> [_] Anon 1913687 >># sounds like you advocate hitler's selfishness with your attitude. There's no evidence to suggest that a human being is born selfish as in a "hitler baby" or a baby which is born influenced by satan.
>> [_] Anon 1913688 >># Selfless attitudes serve as another way to impress others as a basic need for reward which falls back to procreation
>> [_] Anon 1913689 zeitfag: anyway if you think zeitgeist is a cult or something after these talks with you or evil or whatever, then I encourage you to tell people that zeitgeist is evil.
>> [_] Anon 1913691 >># Also on top of that babies scream "MINE" and tell others "NO" as soon as they are able to talk
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913692 >># OK you're officially deluded as fuck. You've sad that yu're the only one in this thread who's pro-zeitgeist. Pretty much everyone else is telling you to fuck off. You're just repeating "why why why". Again, see global rule 17, here I'll even quote it for you: >Remember: The use of 4chan is a privilege, not a right. The 4chan staff reserves the right to revoke access and remove content for any reason without notice. >remove content for any reason >any reason >ANY You may not consider your constant shitposting 'spam', but that doesn't matter anyway. Moot has every right to ban you because his nose itches, let alone if a whole board constantly and totally rejects something. I'm under those same rules too, just like everyone else here.
>> [_] Anon 1913694 Apparently mootles didn't ban you for long enough
>> [_] f4r !HanakoDlmg 1913696 >># It's a permaban. He's evading via proxies. Shit, we may as well just start flooding the board again whenever he posts.
>> [_] Anon 1913704 Question. Why /f/? Nobody here cares about your stupid propaganda. Go away.

File: PhilosophyOf.swf-(850 KB, Loop)
[_] Anon 1897932 Marked for deletion (old).
>> [_] The Devastator 1897933 Hahaha this shit is debunked in the first ten seconds. The only reason this reality allows you to exist is if you meet certain criteria?! You exist because what can physically done is allowed by nature. Derp
>> [_] Anon 1897935 food, air, and water aren't criteria? are you god?
>> [_] Anon 1897937 fucking zeitgeist. If I wanted to be bound by the "laws of nature" I would go be a hippie. Fuck that shit, I am man and therefore I have a burning desire to defy all that is binding, nature notwithstanding. I wish to see a future of an extravagant and superbly developed race of human beings with technology we only dream of. Zeitgheist wouldn't bring this, it would make us all complacent with the lowest common denominator. Fuck that shit.
>> [_] Anon 1897940 you can't defy the laws of nature, that's like saying you can live without eating, breathing, or drinking water. It doesn't matter how much you believe you can stand up and walk on the walls, the law of gravity will not allow it. Technology is developed through recognising what the laws of nature are, not defying them as that is impossible. It's like a religious person who claims humans are divine and better than animals.
>> [_] Anon 1897944 >># >semantics
>> [_] Anon 1897945 But all you need is love Beatles: 1 Zeitgism: 0
>> [_] Anon 1897946 There are plenty of things zeitgeist is wrong about for example: Trade or money or propety are not forms violence as they claim. Patriotism is not harmful towards anyone. Zeitgeist is a communist, internet, hippie, satanist, political cult. No less dangerous than scientology. Ban this spam.
>> [_] Anon 1897973 Lol'ed. But not only to flash.
>> [_] Anon 1897975 ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban ban
>> [_] Anon 1897979 Wait, you guys actually watched it? The second I see Zeitgeist I just close the flash. I still don't even know what Zeitgeist is (other than a bunch of spammers), and I don't care to research finding out. That's not what I'm here for.
>> [_] Anon 1897991 soooo..... the zeitgeist philosophy is basically a green version of Communism? I've never heard of it before but it seems like china an Russia got together and gang raped green peace, to make a baby that then created a philosophy after its own ideals and ended up making this.... sadly no matter what the flash states, it couldn't make a valid point on anything, when it was talking about cigarettes it started out about the health but somehow seaways into how corporate businesses were evil and trade is horrible we should pool resources blah blah blah communistic bull blah blah please people, when you watch this, understand that its communism with the benefit of also getting people who are environmentally oriented to wanna join up. thank you.
>> [_] Anon 1897998 I like the concept, help Earth and shit, but It would never work. It reminds me of Communism, someone would get greedy, people want to get attention or rewarded for their talents, people can't police themselves, people like that idea of having someone in charge.. etc.
>> [_] Anon 1898001 >># >Zeitgeist is a communist, internet, hippie, satanist, political cult. >all thats bad in the world
>> [_] Anon 1898002 You know, I've heard of the whole spam scandal, but I didn't know much about the "Zeitgeist Movement" before I saw this. NOW I can criticize them. The first insane part is the complete misunderstanding of the concept of trade. Now, first of all, it isn't explicitly stated why trading is so bad. The author simply condemns it without another word. Furthermore, the presentation suggests there is evidence that trade is harmful, despite it being proven beneficial in the majority of cases! Consider the pressure on North Korea to allow an oil pipe through their country from Russia to South Korea; strictly motivated by money, this will open up NK astoundingly, which will almost certainly lead to greater human rights movements in the nation. Trade itself is good in theory, too; both parties are receiving in-demand items that they cannot create on their own.
>> [_] Anon 1898003 >># That's the most obvious issue, but there's a deeper problem with the philosophy. First of all, everything around us is natural! It's all the result of a natural process; humanity is a natural thing, a notable thing, granted, but one that's a result of nature. No primordial laws are being violated; everything is going exactly as it should be (with exceptions standing where QM says they should) and considering that the laws of nature are, as the presentation states, empirical and primordial, the brand of naturalistic fallacy that this ideology supports invalidates it instantly!
>> [_] Anon 1898005 >># The only thing that's particularly unique about Zeitgeist is how it's created an insane synthesis of Randian and Marxist ideas. The two philosophies are not necessarily mutually exclusive, yet they hardly go hand and hand. The concept of looking out for one's self-interest above all else hardly fits within a Marxo-Communist framework, yet somehow it's done. Granted, it's held together by duct tape, logical fallacies, and cognitive dissonance, but I ought to give credit where credit is due. However, real issues arrive when the final thesis itself is considered.
>> [_] Anon 1898007 >># Satanic? You're joking, right?
>> [_] Anon 1898008 >># According to the Zeitgeist supporters, all human resources should be allocated towards scientific research and the technological advancement of humankind. This must be accompanied by utter selflessness, thinking of the world before the self. Humans are incapable of doing this. Nothing we do, as psychological, sociological, anthropological, and even neurological studies have proven, is done without respecting a reward. The grandest displays of generosity are done to win public favor, the kindest deeds to win esteem among one's peers. This is not due to corruption of humanity. It's how our logical system works. Zeigeist, despite claiming empiricism, asks us to do what we are psychologically incapable of doing. That is why it will never gain any ground.
>> [_] Anon 1898023 LIKE I A GIVE A SINGULAR FUCK. God damn, this shit's more annoying than door-to-door Jehova's witness people. At least I can be physically rude to them.
>> [_] Anon 1898025 Zetgeist is supposed to be banned from /f/. everyone repport this thread, nobody needs to listen to this bullshit
>> [_] Anon 1898026 >scientifically proving your subjective opinions Riiiiiight...
>> [_] Anon 1898057 The trolling here is of legend. Please, continue.
>> [_] Anon 1898132 >># >mfw satanism is all about doing what you want as an individual >mfw zeitgeist would oppose this with their communism
>> [_] Anon 1898135 I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE WITH THIS SHIT