File: pleaseunderstand.swf-(772 KB, 960x960, Loop)
[_] please understand old fag is too old now 12/09/24(Mon)17:38:44 No.3516297
ah, here it is, you tools
I swear there are nothing but russian bots left here, no humans any more. we are now in the era
of "remember 4chan"
>> [_] Anonymous 12/09/24(Mon)20:01:09 No.3516301
This is where all the humans are hiding out, why would anyone waste time, effort, and money
making a bot to interact with the 15 people left on the planet who still actively use and enjoy
flash content?
That said we are very guilty of being the "remember 4chan?" board as well. It has been nice to
see a few new faces creating OC recently though.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/09/24(Mon)20:40:50 No.3516304
>>3516297
I miss him bros. Nintendo died with him.
>>3516301
I'm pretty sure it's the bots that post thursgay opening/closing ceremony weekly.
"remember 4chan?" seems accurate though. I can't attribute the loss of connection or identity to
one definite thing, but I do miss when people drew more instead of just using basedjaks for
everything.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/09/24(Mon)20:46:29 No.3516306
Dead internet theory has been proven right and only the corners of the internet where the sun
don't shine are the only places of salvation. If it grows in popularity than that's GG, we gotta
enjoy it while it lasts. Also it's flash and has been dead for a while, so we're just old foggies
in our rocking chair saying the same shit over and over again, wishing for better days.
That's my fag opinion tho.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/10/24(Tue)08:13:46 No.3516312
>>3516306
I would not say that it's the dead internet theory. 4chan and its culture is in constant flux,
and it has always been. 2007 we were "hackers on steroids", then we became political with project
chanology and that spiraled into free speech absolutism. The whole site is designed as a constant
battle for relevancy as we have no solid identities over here, no history means that we need
always reinvent ourselves. And anonyminity only makes us weaker when we faced the "eternal
September" of 2016, where /pol/ caused an Xbox huegh influx of new fags to come over and obsess
about politics.
We never had strong enough community to battle the flow of time. That is why 4chan feels dead,
not because it is dead, but the one transient dot of light that we want to hang on has died, and
we have been left behind with no community in a strange place that used to be familiar to us, but
now only brings out uncanny valley type of feeling.
4chan is dead. Long live 4chan.
>> [_] John Moses Browning 12/10/24(Tue)21:04:26 No.3516327
Flash will have a Renaissance just like retro games and cars
Ruffle just needs to get their shit so good together that it can run perfectly fine on mobile and
even better than the x32 flash projector
>> [_] Anonymous 12/10/24(Tue)23:13:25 No.3516330
>>3516327
>Flash will have a Renaissance
Do you mean the old content? Or the "format" itself?
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)01:48:23 No.3516338
>>3516304
Do you *really* miss him? Did you *really* reflect on what he did in life until after he was gone?
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)01:50:17 No.3516339
>>3516327
Ruffle has honestly already gone above and beyond my expectations. I was sure the project would
have died off before getting anywhere near where it's currently at.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)02:04:05 No.3516340
>>3516297
Im real op i hate that only bots have covered /b/
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)07:55:30 No.3516342
>>3516339
Same desu, when I heard about it I gave it a year before everyone involved got busy/tired/stopped
caring and let it rot but it's been improving slowly but surely over time. I will still >ruffle
post when people bitch about it cause why would you not use native flash but it's cool that it's
still alive.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)08:22:50 No.3516344
>>3516327
Nah, it's like saying that "Horses will have their Reneissance after cars". Flash was replaced
with better technologies. Why would you use it when there are game engines, animation software
and mp4's to make and share stuff with? Techniques flash pioneered might still have some limited
use, but threre is no reason to go back to it.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:00:16 No.3516348
>>3516342
>why would you not use native flash
this is fine for us few that were there, but you'd never get anyone born after 2010 to discover
the flash format unless they are able to see a swf on a website, which ruffle allows for. it
gives hope for resurrection.
also, if ruffle actually manages to implement everything that flash ever was capable of it could
be developed further. if ruffle one day is the de-facto flash player the swf format could get new
capabilities.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:04:08 No.3516349
>>3516348
i have one idea that i would love to see implemented in the ruffle player (without needing to
change the format), i've not discussed it with anybody working on ruffle so if anybody here can
get in touch with them feel free to forward my idea:
would be neat if you could "upscale framerate" on any swf file to as close to the maximum (120
fps) as possible. basically you'd just increase the number of frames between key frames, with
some small ruffle-handled delay before frame advancement on "fractional frames", and references
to frame numbers in script also need to be adjusted of course.
since flash animations make use of tweens a lot this means that a ton of classic swfs would
instantly become extremely smooth, all without changing anything in the swfs themselves.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:05:31 No.3516350
>>3516297
For real this this the only board that still feels the same, if a lot slower.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:07:06 No.3516351
>>3516344
I tried to find another portable lightweight software with a similar working interface to Flash
8. With an easy script language like AS2. And that can be exported as a similar file like swf
(game, interactive media), and to me, that other similar option doesn't exist.
unity, blender, godot, etc, are too bloated and sophisticated in comparison. Flash can do what
you need, incredibly easy, and produce an standalone executable file with the whole thing
packaged inside as a tiny file. It's just beautiful. That's why they killed it, it was too good
to be true. And still is.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:21:34 No.3516353
>>3516297
I always wanted to get into flash but it always seemed like I needed some program I had to pay
for from adobe. Is there any way to make flash with 3rd party tools?
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:26:43 No.3516354
>>3516353
You can find the old macromedia Flash 8 easy online. There are two versions, one works with
win10, the older version works only on win7.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:32:42 No.3516359
>>3516351
You say Unity is bloated but once upon a time you could export your whole 3D game into a swf file
from Unity so ActionScript 3 is quite capable.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)10:40:19 No.3516360
>>3516359
That's why I listed Unity first, it was the most promising option, but look how it ended.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)12:54:13 No.3516373
>>3516344
>Flash was replaced with better technologies
Press X to doubt!
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)13:31:25 No.3516376
>>3516349
That's technically already possible, in flash itself. AS3 lets you load external .swfs onto stage
as movieclips, analyze their content, get library definitions, clone them etc. So at the simplest
you could have a wrapper that dynamically loads an .swf, looks at two (or maybe three) successive
frames, builds inheritance trees of the displayobjects in them and finds if an object's delta
location between frames is low enough for it to likely belong to a tween (with AS3 style curved
tweens this turns into a derivation problem). Then interpolate the transformation matrices to get
"fake" tweens, store them for each object in each pair of frames and boom, there's your
double/triple/10x fps.
You might have to build an array replica of the whole timeline that manually handles recursive
nextFrames/gotoAndStops to actually play the doubled framerate version since embedded .swfs
cannot have independent fps, at least to my knowledge. So you cannot just play two half-fps
versions of the same animation interleaved with one playing the even frames (raw version) and the
other playing the odd frames ("fake" tweened version) and rapidly toggle which one is visible
from the main .swf. Actually, if that's somehow possible I think it would remove 90% of the
burden especially when dealing with animations that use ActionScript for loops, scene changes or
basically anything else.
Also some people might have this misconception, but flash doesn't really compile tweens sparsely
as keyframes like you see them in the editor, they get converted to individual frames as if you
pressed F6 on a timeline selection. So there isn't a direct way to read tweens from an .swf, they
must be algorithmically inferred. That isn't the hard part though.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)13:48:06 No.3516377
>>3516376
>they get converted to individual frames as if you pressed F6 on a timeline selection.
i find that hard to believe as it would be inefficient for the swf format, would waste a lot of
bytes needing to store positions for tweened stuff in every frame compared to only storing the
start and end positions.
the swf format did after all make crazy efforts to save on file size, including storing
rectangles using less than 8 bits per number and using "twips" measurements. not even the swf
header uses normal numbers for the stage's width/height.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)13:56:08 No.3516378
>>3516376
Reading shit like this makes me realize that I was born irremediably retarded. -_-
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)14:58:02 No.3516381
>>3516377
>compared to only storing the start and end positions
They probably couldn't be assed to do it that way back in the 90s because having to define what a
"tween" actually is or how to encode it in the compiled file (where it matters) would just be too
much of a hassle, and that's before we introduce the manyfold more complex AS3 tweens. Turns out
twips and the other bit-coding & packing stuff that's used pretty much in every field and tag in
the format are already a pretty good size saving measure. Lots of stuff fits into 1KB.
And to top it all off the whole file is wrapped in Deflate/LZMA, that's a worthy compromise in my
opinion, having some redundancy to keep the format (relatively) simple but compensating it with a
compression layer to take advantage of the resulting low entropy.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)15:34:57 No.3516383
>>3516353
Look for flashgip in the archive there's a copy there
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)16:07:48 No.3516384
take your faggot whining to irc and post more cool flashes
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)16:10:13 No.3516386
>>3516381
>couldn't be assed to do it that way back in the 90s
that's precisely why i think they did do it that way, to save download time. it's not that hard
to define a tween for a point compared to specifying a bunch of positions of that point (the
point is for example a movieclip). 500 KiB was a huge file back when the foundation of flash was
made. they even put a lot of effort for everything to be arranged so that you could stream the
file and start playing it before it was fully loaded.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)16:26:05 No.3516388
>>3516384
Way to read half of a 26 post thread fucktard
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)16:43:52 No.3516390
>>3516386
took a look at the flash format specification and PlaceObject2 specifies that it modifies a
previously defined PlaceObject2 position, and i think PlaceObject2 only occurs on key frames?
though i didn't read it explicitly so i guess it's possible that it happens on every frame.
DefineMorphShape specifies a start and end state which is interpolated between.
hm, it does say in PlaceObject2 that
>>The Ratio field specifies a morph ratio for the character being added or modified. This field
applies only to characters defined with DefineMorphShape, and controls how far the morph has
progressed.
so i guess if i'm reading this correctly PlaceObject2 is stated every frame for each thing that
is showing, which would mean that i was wrong about the tweens being stored and they do store
positions on each frame.
i guess a simple test would be to make a flash with a bunch of tweens and export it with 10
frames between every keyframe and then again with 100 frames between every keyframe and see if
there's a difference in filesize.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)17:03:59 No.3516391
>>3516390
i guess storing position and rotation every frame would explain why rotations with tweens always
were so crappy: instead of using fractions of degrees they saved space by only storing round
numbers.
and when decompiling a swf to a fla there were a bunch of extra keyframes added from tweens, but
interestingly not on every frame if i remember correctly. maybe the decompiler had some
optimization when turning things into tweens? or am i misremembering that tweens never were
restored?
so i've chaned my idea of >>3516349 in case of tweens not being stored in swf files:
instead just double the amount of frames and create a visual-only interpolation inside those new
frames. 12 fps -> 24 fps would still be a big lift in how smooth the flash looks. could be
quadrupled, turning 12 fps into 48 fps. would be awesome if ruffle supported these kinds of
visual-only interpolated frames, it's even simpler to implement now that i think about it because
there's no need to change anything in any ActionScripts. the "in-between frames" are just visual
(mouse clicks and key events would be captured and then flushed on the next real frame)
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)17:19:56 No.3516392
>>3516390
MorphShape refers to Shape Tween which I think is one of the new AS3-era features. Indeed that
seems to have some kind of optimized keyframe encoding, while Classic Tween and the modern Motion
Tween still look like they're encoded the old way. I can't find anything related to
position-delta-optimization for non-morphshape objects but I just skimmed the documents.
>>3516391
>i guess storing position and rotation every frame would explain why rotations with tweens always
were so crappy
That doesn't explain why rotations look crappy even when you code them by using .rotation on a
movieclip (try adding a small fraction like 0.01 each frame, it still has the "jitter"). I think
it's just the render engine's legacy code rounding 2D matrix rotations to whatever is
rotation/skew values' equivalent of twips. Just another 90s leftover that they overlooked and has
stuck since.
If you want good looking rotations, you can actually trick flash into treating a movieclip as
having a 3D transform by setting its .z to anything. It will use a newer engine and look smooth
that way.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)20:28:23 No.3516395
>>3516388
tldr
>> [_] Anonymous 12/11/24(Wed)23:31:35 No.3516402
never watched this past 10 seconds. Always assumed it was costanza.jpg
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)05:15:08 No.3516407
>>3516392
>MorphShape refers to Shape Tween which I think is one of the new AS3-era features
shape morphing is something very old in flash, i think it was a thing before AS2 even. was one of
the "cool features" demonstrated when flash was new, morphing between letters on the web.
>rotations look crappy even when you code them by using .rotation
that's not what i remember, i remember that setting rotation with actionscript did make it look
smooth compared to doing it with tweens
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)06:45:52 No.3516409
>>3516344
I have yet to see a software where I can make my seamless flash loops that neatly
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)11:39:42 No.3516416
>>3516378
don't worry anon, it's all a matter of experience
I don't understand half of what they say and I've done AS3 flashes
and even then I started not being able to write a single line of actionscript and spending hours
on a simple preloader
you get better with every attempt
and this shit is high level
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)12:00:39 No.3516419
>>3516407
>shape morphing is something very old in flash, i think it was a thing before AS2 even
Oh, you were right all along, when I checked to see if my Flash 8 had it I was mistakenly looking
for it in the right click menu, forgot that back then it was hidden under the frame properties
tab.
>i remember that setting rotation with actionscript did make it look smooth compared to doing it
with tweens
https://files.catbox.moe/6f24pn.webm
Here's the results I'm getting. For what it's worth this is CS6+FP32 and it might've been
different on earlier versions.
>>3516416
Yep this, it's about the knowledge you build up over many years. And a lot of the confusing stuff
that's being talked about is just jargon and unfamiliar terminology. I'm confident any single
concept could be smartly explained in terms simple enough for a 7 year old to understand. And
then it's about understanding the relations between those concepts.
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)12:03:57 No.3516420
>>3516419
Oops, that link is improperly looped. Here's a better version: https://files.catbox.
moe/7les69.webm
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)16:39:02 No.3516425
>>3516419
>>3516420
>Here's the results I'm getting
your script rotation sure does look just as bad as classic tween. is it AS2 or AS3? maybe I'm
remembering AS3 rotation. if both give the same result i'm not sure what trick i'm remembering to
make it look smooth
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)17:36:53 No.3516427
benis :DDD
>> [_] Anonymous 12/12/24(Thu)19:21:33 No.3516429
>>3516425
Since it has 3D transforms you can tell it's AS3. I get similar results on both AS2 tweens and
scripted rotations though. The trick you recall could very well be some other way to trigger 3D
transform matrix. Editing the z-value is the quickest way I know, it's possible via both the
object properties tab and scripting on FP10+.
